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1. I’ve come to believe that a significant proportion of American Jews claim, in some way, the Jewish State as theirs, and so to some extent they’re happy about the ethnic cleansing of Palestine as well as the US military efforts to destabilize the Middle East, both of which make this state possible. (I think that most American Zionists are liberal Zionists, which means they live with the conflicting values of Zionism and Universal Liberalism, and rather than weeding out the lessor value, they continue to feed both sides. So even though they decry ethnic cleansing and war, another side of them not-so-secretly roots for these.) They’re happy about things I find utterly abhorrent, which makes me loathe being around them.

   My problem is that I would hate to avoid or harbor any animosity towards non-Zionist Jews or anti-Zionist Jews just because of the ways of Zionist Jews. I don’t know if the significance of that proportion (of Jews who are Zionists) comes from a high percentage of American Jews who are Zionists, or if a small but powerful percentage is. To the extent I think that it’s the former is the extent I feel the urge to avoid Jews as much as possible. Being aware of the danger of this urge I try to give my rational thinking on this matter great prominence over my crude animal instinct of feeling repulsed by all Jews because of the act of some. Gilad Atzmon, in this article, makes my problem more difficult. He writes:

   “If Jews know so much about persecution how come their Jewish State is institutionally racist…”

   As he does several times in the same paragraph, here, in tagging “their” to “Jews,” unqualified, he’s saying that all Jews are Zionists. That’s quite an accusation! Does he argue his case somewhere?

   I find it preposterous to think that, for example, all members of International Jewish Anti-Zionist Network are really pro-Zionist. And, I find it even more preposterous to think that there are no Jews who simply don’t think about the Jewish State in Palestine and related geopolitical issues. I’m sure there are some. They can’t claim Israel as theirs if they don’t even think about it.

   Since I haven’t yet written Gilad Atzmon off as a idiotic hater I’m led to entertain the idea that he accidentally tilted his rhetoric from ‘some Jews’ to ‘all Jews’ because he has reason to believe that the overwhelming majority of Jews are Zionists.

   I don’t know. Can anyone corroborate or correct it?

   Amartya Sen said, in the Q&A after a lecture entitled Identity and Violence: the Violence of Illusion, (it’s 51 minutes into the video I saw,)

   “When [a classification] becomes difficult is when it preempts every other form of classification. So really, I’m not asking for non-classification; I’m asking for more classification — many, many, many, many more.”

   I agree with Sen. Let’s not only let Jews celebrate their Jewishness, but let’s let ourselves be enriched by their celebration, and only call out instances or trends where their myriad of actual identities becomes so unhealthily out of balance that it’s to our detriment (or horror, as with the case of Zionism.)

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   Comment by Matt | February 10, 2017 | Reply

   • Actually, I read Gilad applying the accusation of generalizing to the rabbi and not engaging in generalizing himself:

     “Along the years I have developed an allergy to “as a” statements in general and “as a Jew” proclamations in particular.”

     The problem with all these religions is that their “holy word” is really quite awful. This is a good reason for states and armed forces to avoid using religion as a basis for their actions as the IDF and ISIS do.

     Christianity has been used to excuse conquest also, and has also been decried for it. How adherents are to separate themselves from the criminal aspects of scripture they claim to hold as divine is an open question.

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     Comment by aletho | February 10, 2017 | Reply

     • I don’t believe there is one set (for all time and space) correct way to interpret anything in life never-mind sacred scriptures. A case can be made that the way scriptures is interpreted in various times and cultures is predominantly determined by the cultural climate people live in. If they live in fear and violence they’ll interpret these texts in ways that help them deal with fear and embolden them to face violence. If they live in peace the predominant tendency of people has been to interpret these texts in a way that builds on peace.

       Interpretation is in large part a collective society-wide effort, and in smaller part it’s guided by smaller social circles, details of interpretation are up to the individual.

       I think ‘fundamentalist’ interpretations, or ‘originalist’ interpretations are mostly interpretations that are gratuitous to their own narrow special interests (which are oftentimes due to a mental perversity) but still are according to their own culture. People will always be gravitationally pulled toward the most gratuitous interpretation for their overall mental situation. The originalist’s mentality prefers stasis to change, so they reach for the oldest interpretation that still makes sense in their current life. I seriously doubt the original interpretations of the Bible would make much sense today. (See John Allegro’s The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross for a mind trip of an explanation of the true original intent and interpretation of the New Testament.)

       Given the contradictions of the New Testament, certain things have to be ignored or creatively explained away, e.g., Jesus was of the seed in the lineage of David but Mary wasn’t inseminated. Likewise, the violence can be ignored or creatively explained away. To someone like me who believes humans have always creatively constructed and interpreted reality in much the same way we create and interpret art, although over a much longer time line than art, the mother of all sins is not being constructively creative (on a society-wide basis when changes over time demand a creative change.)

       I don’t think the ancient texts drive the mental perversity nearly as much as the climate and circumstances surrounding the interpreter.

       The best thing I’ve ever read on this subject is an article called Religion and Reason, by Joseph Margolis.
       http://www.jstor.org/stable/20005371

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       Comment by Matt | February 11, 2017 | Reply

     • OK, I now see how you read it the way you did. So you’re saying it could’ve been written something like this (with the additional single quotation marks):

       “If ‘Jews know so much about persecution’ how come their Jewish State is institutionally racist…”

       Or, in more detail,

       “If ‘Jews know so much about persecution’, as they say, how come their Jewish State is institutionally racist…”

       In these ways “their” could refer to the T’ruah rabbis.

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       Comment by Matt | February 11, 2017 | Reply

       • Hello Matt and Aletho … indeed the reference to ‘Jews’ in the paragraph point at the T’ruah rabbis’ duplicity… I wouldn’t ask anyone to oppose Jews just for being Jews and i do not think that this is the case anyway. Yet, I am in total and uncompromised opposition to all forms of Jewish ID politics. I oppose Zionists as much as I oppose the so-called (Jewish) ‘anti’, I oppose all the ‘as a’ talks (in general) and ‘as a Jew’ in particular. The logos is simple; those who identify politically ‘as jews’ subscribe to a racially exclusive political club. Matt, if you aren’t a Jew, you may be able to send money to JVP but you will never become the secretary. Why? because you are not racially qualified. One clarification is needed here. Jews are not a race,,, but Jewish politics (Zionist, ‘anti’, left. right and centre) is always racist to the core… BTW, crucial to mention at this point that I do not have any issue with Torah Jews, their opposition the Zionism is driven by some religious guidelines.. My debate with Torah Jews is largely theological ,.. after all, the most hawkish Zionists within the settler movement are rabbinical Jews,,,, accordingly, vindicating Judaism is not an easy task and a few rabbis carrying Palestinian flags can hardly divert the attention from the embarrassing fact that the Israeli crimes in Israel are supported and also driven by a clear Rabbinical call.

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         Comment by Gilad Atzmon | February 18, 2017 | Reply

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